The Facilities Thing
By Lake The Posts on
Nothing gets the football off-season talk humming quite like facilities renovation speculation. Shall we?
As the ‘Cats conclude their fourth practice of the week, attention starts honing in on the Spring Game. Daily wire reports continue to blast disheartening news in our conference ranging from Jim Tressel’s potential tenure ending to the laundry list of injuries and the like. However, in our circles, this off-season promises the most anticipated news in the program in some time; the revealation of a master facilities plan.
Many of you received THIS SURVEY which walks you through a series of questions on potential preferences and discretionary price thresholds from everything including Ryan Field luxury suites to club seating to courtside seats at a basketball arena (if you want to see what it said without taking the survey you can browse Sippin’ On Purple’s recent post which did just that). I’m guessing this survey will help measure the baseline of a financing plan for an earn back on what will be major investments in to revenue sport facilities. Some of you have emailed me concluding that this survey implies band-aids to the existing facilities. I had the complete opposite reaction. My initial reaction was that everything including a Welsh-Ryan teardown was on the table. The bottom line is that only the NU administration knows.
I do want to point out a few things that are a given. Dr. Phillips is certainly looking at this across EVERY sport. The plan will certainly follow the main revenue sources with football and basketball receiving the most investment dollars. However, I’m confident every single sport is being considered. When you consider we have a perennial power wrestling program that has facilities shoehorned in the basement of Welsh-Ryan and a gorgeous Lakeside Field with no lockerrooms for the teams, you get the gist. I expect our non-revenue sports to get a HUGE list. This is going to be a gamechanger.
Jim Phillips took our administration on a tour of other Big Ten facilities to show them the discrepancy in what “they” have versus what we have. I think the field trips did a lot to persuade the school that we’re not on an even playing field, yet are still hanging in there in terms of competition. Imagine what we could do by sweeping out the argument of inferior facilities for recruits? I’ve been sniffing around Populous’ (the firm hired to do the facilities overhaul) website to try and get a feel for what we can expect, but it is tough to project what MIGHT be, but let’s face it, every situation is unique and at NU it might be with a capital “U”.
There are some legitimate challenges. The current athletics compound is relatively land locked. Plus, one often overlooked element of NU Athletics is the fact that most of the facilities like Ryan Field, Welsh-Ryan and many of the practice areas and academic counseling are a trek from campus. The enormous success of soccer and national championship caliber women’s lacrosse just steps from students’ dorms has to have opened eyes to the convenience of better utilizing the lakefront for practice facilities. It will be interesting from a football standpoint as I don’t see a way around practices up on Central Street, especially this time of year. I can only imagine a freshman hauling up there at 5:30 am to make it for a 6 am practice. Definitely not something they put on the recruiting brochure. However, this is why I’m so excited. Phillips and company are looking at the entire campus and every athletic program to try and create an optimal student athlete experience. We’ve been playing football for 135 years and there will never have been a more ambitious facilities endeavor than this.
According to Mike Polisky we’re still a couple of months away from learning the gameplan. I cannot wait. However, I get the sense the wait will be very much worth it.
Lacrosse Promo
NUSports.com’s home page is touting this weekend’s women’s lacrosse game against #3 Duke at noon ct at Lakeside Field. There will be a free lacrosse clinic AFTER the game for girls in grades 1-8. For more info go to www.NUSports.com .
Carmody Calling
Bill Carmody will be on BTN tonight and here is the official release cut and paste from BTN media relations:
“Northwestern men’s basketball coach Bill Carmody is scheduled to be an in-studio guest analyst on the Big Ten Network at 8 PM ET on Thursday. Carmody will appear on the show Big Ten Basketball & Beyond alongside Dave Revsine, Mike Hall and Jim Jackson.
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Carmody will help review the Big Ten’s performance in the NCAA Tournament, preview this weekend’s Final Four and look back at the Wildcats’ 20-14 season that ended in the NIT quarterfinals. It was the second consecutive 20-win season for Northwestern.”
Let me ask a question…who REALLY cares about non-revenue sports? Would you rather have our Football team go 10-2 with a Big 10 Championship or our Football team go 7-6 with a bowl loss and National Championships in lacrosse, Men’s Soccer, and Wrestling?
I guess many would choose the former.
How much money do you think NU is going to spend on this project?
Oregon just got 41 million for a football-ONLY facility
Ohio State spent 22 Million on an add-on for their already giant football facility
Does anyone wonder how Oregon got to be so good at football? It was money provided by Phil Knight, along with some great coaching, to get great recruits who CHANGE the program. And to get great recruits they had great facilities.
Guess what? We have great coaching. We just need players that can make a difference on the field. We lost recruits like Dan Voltz to UW, and Bennett to Ohio State. Can anyone imagine our line with those two players, not to mention the other young talent we have? Those players can help win B10 Championships and push the program OVER the ridge of mediocrity(what is our record as a ranked team, like 1-something?)
In order to become a great football program, we need to go BIG on this project, and big on FOOTBALL. I would say maybe 30-50 MILLION depending on if new facilities are built, which they should be. Make a Football-only facility with the WORKS to make Ohio State look small. Build a FULL SIZE indoor practice facility with 2 Fields. Build an 18,000-20,000 sq. ft weight room for FOOTBALL only. Make the football offices have Plasma’s in every room. All the chairs leather. etc. etc. etc.
The point is to go BIG. Because if we just touch up our facilities it’s just going to be a band-aid for a bullet hole.
As for Olympic Sports…
As long as Football essentially has an unlimited budget and can do whatever Fitz wants, Olympic sports can do whatever they want.
But don’t tell me you want to take money away from football to give to the lacrosse team. Sure it’s nice to say they are going for 6 straight National Championships in Towson.
I’d rather go to Pasadena.
Who really cares about non-revenue sports? Title IX compliance attorneys, for a start.
@jason – what did I write that led you to think we AREN’T going big in football in basketball. I am 100% speculating but I’d be surprised if the football only dedicated investment was anything less than $100Million. We’ve had one $25Million facelift in a century. It IS going to be big. That doesn’t exclude other sports benefitting from this one time blip of major facilities investment. The point was that it will be good for all.
I agree that the project needs to be football-heavy, but don’t forget about basketball…the same argument about breaking free from the chains of mediocrity can be made for basketball, as W-R needs a major facelift, in addition to an upgrade to the bball offices and training facilites. Here at Loyola, they just finished building a beautiful 3-story athletics center for all sports, complete with new workout and training rooms, academic centers, lounges and other amenities and attached it right to the basketball arena…no doubt in my mind that NU will be competing for basketball recruits with Loyola becasue of LUC’s new athletic center…I hope this opens the eyes of the NU braintrust.
I agree that EVERY sport – men’s and women’s – must be included. Get NU into the 21st Century. And it must be a blockbuster plan that leaves everyone of us slack jawed! They didn’t need to hire Populous if they are looking for a cosmetic cure.
All that being said, construction needs to start yesterday. You don’t sign recruits based on a fundraising campaign that pay for new facilities that will be completed after they graduate!
Parking, parking, and parking (and as a result, tailgating, tailgating, and tailgating)! Nothing adds atmosphere like tailgating, and the number one reason why I can’t even give away tickets to friends from the burbs is the stress of getting to the game. We need space around the stadium and some way to clear the congestion coming in from Sheridan / Green Bay. Nothing is lamer than a shuttle bus. I love Rocky Miller, but if they could move that and the softball fields to make more space for football parking, I’m for it. While we’re at it, take back the golf course. This means infinitely more to me than luxury boxes / club seating options (which is just an excuse to charge more for tickets – doesn’t do anything to improve the game experience for the thousands who don’t buy those seats and doesn’t pull in a single new recruit).
I know a lot of people complained about the Soldier Field redesign, but something similar is what I think needs to happen to Ryan Field. Keep the classic facade, then spaceship the s*** out of the interior. Make this place sparkle with specialty concessions (Chicago-style dogs, Lou Malnati’s, REAL grilled Italians and Polish sausages, gourmet pretzels, sushi, Bobby Flay personally cooking for the luxury suites, etc., etc.–o.k., just joking about Bobby Flay), seatbacks for everyone, excluding the student, young alumni, and visitors’ sections. Install the latest field turf (or, even better, the most state-of-the-art possible natural turf system), a MEGA jumbotron, a real sound system (let’s mic up and amplify NUMB while we’re at it), NFL-style player intros, etc., etc. Let’s make this the flashiest place in the NCAA to play football, and THEN, let’s add the 20,000 square foot weight room and indoor practice facilities. Keep the skeleton of W-R, and then gut the place. Make it a mini (10,000-seat) Staples Center. Get rid of the practice court (or whatever is in that mystery area behind the east stands) and open the place up. Every seat should have a back, other than the student section, which should be right on top of the opposing bench, curving behind the basket. Obviously, add the luxury suites, courtside seats, and the same designer concessions available at Ryan Field. Build a top-of-the-line practice facility in or near SPAC.
Finally, assuming that Ryan Field and W-R stay where they are currently located, lobby the NCAA to consider them off-campus venues so that beer can be served during football games (alright, a guy can dream), and charge $4.50-5 for a beer, not $6.75 or $7 like the pro venues do.
Obviously, all of this is pipe dream city, but this vision is a sure way to get fans in the stands and, more importantly, to have the Dan Voltzes of the world picking NU over your Wisconsins and Michigan States. *sigh*
Oh, and instead of that silly Willy the Wildcat costume, let’s get a real, live panther or mountain lion to run wild around the field before player intros. Have it chase a real, live **insert opposing mascot animal** around the stadium, hunt it down, and eat it before unleashing the ‘Cats to hunt and destroy their opponent. Can you imagine the psychological edge we would have had at the Outback Bowl if Willie had actually killed and eaten that stupid Auburn eagle? Just kidding…
@CatInTheHat
I like a lot of your ideas, but I hope they don’t go for the “amped up” sound system like they have at NBA arenas. Sorry, I don’t want to go deaf attending a sporting event. And I’m saying that as someone who was screaming his lungs out on 3rd down at the Michigan State and Iowa games last fall. (No, I’m not over 50.) Those arena sound systems are a barrage to the senses – way too loud too much of the time. It’s impossible to hear the person next to you speaking.
And call me old school, but I’d still prefer a well-manicured grass field over the fake stuff.
@Catinthehat the NFL player introductions = worst idea ever. Fitz would never go for it and it completely undermines the value of the team being a TEAM.
The flashiest place in the NCAA? What are the biggest venues in college football? Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State. Do you think they are flashy? No. they have TRADITION and we need to show ours, not turn it into an NFL atmosphere which has no feeling. That’s what make college football special.
and THEN add the weight room and practice facility? Where do players spend the majority of their time…hmmm…meetings, practice, and workouts.
If you think Northwestern is going to add another renovation after spending all this money on this renovation, you are crazy. This is the last BIG thing for another 25-50 years. It needs to satisfy everything. Think about how long already we have been waiting for this design? It needs to happen NOW.
Paul Myerberg of presnapread.com has the NU vs BC game as one of his “Top 15″ nonconference games to look forward to in 2011.
Here’s what Paul has to say:
“Northwestern at Boston College, Sept. 3. An intriguing game, one that would be made far less intriguing should Northwestern’s Dan Persa still be sidelined by last season’s Achilles tear. He should be ready to go by September: modern medicine at work. Yet he won’t be the dynamic dual-threat quarterback he was in 2010, at least not at first, one would think. That’s a big bonus for Boston College, which has the defense to slow down Northwestern but maintains those pesky questions on offense – a healthy Persa might provide too much spark for B.C. to overcome with its own offensive attack. Of course, B.C. can avoid any questions on offense by getting more consistent quarterback play. Easier said than done: sophomore Chase Rettig has a bright future, but he needs to produce today, not next fall, to make the offense more balanced, less one-dimensional.”
Here’s my response to Paul on presnapread.com regarding Persa:
http://www.presnapread.com/non-conference-to-watch-8-15/#comment-8935
wildcat6 says: March 31, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Dan Persa will be healthy and ready for BC. He’s being held out of spring practice as a precautionary measure, but all indications are he’s ahead of schedule in recovering from the Achilles tear. And there is no one – perhaps nationally – with a better work ethic than Dan Persa, multiple winner of the “Iron Cat” award for strength and fitness.
Perhaps he won’t be as mobile or prone to take off scrambling as he was last year. But I expect Dan Persa to be armed and ready for the Eagles, and with a receiving corps as deep and talented as Northwestern’s, he should lead a formidable offense.
@ Wildcat6
Agreed on grass vs. Field Turf. I’m a huge fan of natural surfaces as well. Our new field should be the best maintained and most meticulously manicured in the NCAA. Also, I agree that the sound system probably shouldn’t turn the games into a circus, but I do think that a 21st-century sound system that doesn’t crackle or echo and allows us to hear the band and PA announcer would do us some good.
@ jason:
Fine–then introduce the team as a whole in a flurry of fireworks, fog, and music, Bulls/Blackhawks style. I understand that tradition should be maintained and that tradition is what draws big-time recruits to places like OSU and Michigan. However, we obviously cannot stand on tradition alone, as evidenced by the fact that we still can’t keep up with those schools when it comes to recruiting. We need to offer something that those guys can’t, and unfortunately, top-notch academics on their own don’t seem to be working as that wildcard.
Also, it’s a given that the weight room and practice facilities need to be the best in the Big Ten. That’s a given and was addressed quite amply by previous posters, which is why I didn’t make it the focus of my post. Sorry if I was unclear, but when I said “THEN add,” I didn’t mean add it later. I was just saying that, in addition to the top-flight stadium, this renovation would obviously also include the practice/weight facility improvements that others had mentioned.
who REALLY cares about non-revenue sports?
I do, for one. But it’s like asking, “Who REALLY cares about ancient Greek? Shouldn’t Northwestern eliminate it to spend more money on the departments I care about?”
We are an elite school academically and athletically, which means we should compete across the board.
@dozer
How are we an elite school athletically? What teams are considered “elite” besides lacrosse?
Please, no alcohol; I had 3,469 people walk in front of me at Wrigley going to the restroom or to buy more beer. I liked the survey because it asked whether I would pay more for the different types of luxury accomodations (no). It is still a mystery to me that in the most populous area of the Big 10 and with the lowest, or near lowest, ticket prices NU can’t draw. And yes, it needs to be non-alums if there aren’t enough football fanatics among the alums in the Chicago area. The debate about the Olympic sports v. football/basketball is a non-issue in my mind. Football and basketball, both men’s and women’s, are the sports that are going to draw in 90% of the revenue. I think, although I know there are people who study this, if the basketball and football teams draw the money will be there for the Olympic sports. Which means you need to attract capacity crowds to RF and WR.
@CatintheHat
NCAA has no say over whether we serve alcohol at football games. That is an institutional situation. Many state schools are bound by state laws in this matter.
For NU it would be first a choice to endeavor to do it and then the approval of the City of Evanston. Neither of these things are likely to happen.
NCAA rules regarding sales of alcohol are only relative to NCAA championship events.. i.e. the recent basketball games at the United Center (at which there were no beer sales)
Ryan Field can survive with a facelift/space-lift.
Welsh-Ryan Arena and all the dirty cockroaches in the bathrooms and under the scorer’s table need to be blown the hell up. That place was outdated 15 years ago. No way a facelift works for that monstrosity of a building.
The framework of the plan can be guessed from the questions asked. For football, massive renovation of Dyche/Ryan, with “luxury” seating that would entail something like a ticket license, in the form of a mandatory donation to the Wildcat Fund, ranging from a couple of toes up to an arm and a leg, and maybe a mortgage on the earnings of your first-born. Please, no beer. There are enough drunks already. I’m guessing that structural engineers have already cleared the existing framework.
For basketball, a new arena, seating 15k or so and in line with the rest of the conference. A new arena, I think, is key to luring a top-flight coach who can fill it. The new arena can be built on a part of the existing parking area.
Parking has to upgrade too, but how to please tailgaters with a multi-tier parking facility is a challenge.
It would be neat if the vacant Kendall College land could be used somehow, but in all these things, resistance from Evanston has to be expected. Look at the static that a few folks on Orrington put up when NU put a small restaurant in the old Seabury-Western dining hall.
The survey …. it was comic … but it certainly gives you insight into where NU’s head is at in this renovation. Forget your training facilities and jumbo trons … UNLESS …. the alumni who give $$$ send a letter dictating what they want or they will get whatever NU feels is appropriate.
Petition to withhold all ticket purchases and donations until the plan is revealed … get 4-5000 alums to do this and you’ll have your plan in an Old Testament six days.
Jason, I’d argue that we’re elite by virtue of being members (competitive, at that) in the Big Ten. We may not win national championships in all of our sports, but we compete at a level near the top of the game in every sport in which we participate. I don’t think there’s another conference in the country that can compare across all sports.
If you’re looking for championships, in the last decade, we’ve won three conference titles in men’s golf, two in softball, 10 in women’s tennis, and, of course, lacrosse’s stellar record in the ALC. Other sports that don’t compete in the Big Ten, like wrestling and women’s fencing, compete at a very high level nationally. And a lot of our other teams– both soccer teams, for instance– are definitely moving in an upward trajectory.
The Athletic Department has put together a pretty good overall showing, I think, and we’re up against the toughest conference in the country.
@ SD: Interesting. Thanks for the clarification on the rules governing alcohol consumption at college sporting events.
@NU68, it would be foolish to withhold ticket purchases until the plan is revealed, not least because the plan doesn’t need to be rushed but also because the plan isn’t going to be implemented instantly. It has little to do with this year’s experience, I’d guess.
As for the survey, they had no need to ask the likes of us what we thought of training facilities. The whole point of it was to find out what kind of seats there’s a market for. That’s it. They surely talked to people who know what they’re talking about when it comes to the weightroom.
@Dozer, you can add to your list (swimming has had it’s moments also) the fact that the athletic teams have among the very highest academic achievements in the country. Consistently. That’s elite.
NU M Soccer – 8-8, 5/7th place
NU W Soccer – 6-10-3, 8/11th place
Volleyball 9-11 Big Ten
Wrestling – competes in the big ten. But they are about middle to upper tier.
Baseball – 7-14 currently.
M Tennis – 1 Win in B10 Play 09-10 season
Field Hockey 3-3 in Big ten Play
Basketball – Barely made NIT
W Basketball – NIT
Football – 7-6. Win against Iowa, Indiana(bottom feeder), and Minnesota(bottom feeder).
Softball – 11-12 Big Ten Play
Golf…
Fencing…
W Tennis and Lacrosse have been good, but W Tennis is not good because they play in an awful conference, which is why they almost always lose in the 1st or 2nd round of NCAA’s. Who cares.
So…How are these teams Elite?
By being in the Big Ten? So Indiana and Purdue are Elite athletically as well?
being ELITE means being the best Overall. We are “Elite” in Lacrosse. That is it.
If we want to be ELITE in football, we need to commit overboard to make our team have the best possible facility in the country. Because we need to recruit nationally to get the best players. The talent level in Illinois is lacking and we need to go outside of the state to attract players.
@VA wildcat
no one is debating these teams are elite academically. How are they elite athletically on the pool, court, etc?
@CatInTheHat
Staples Center? Soldier Field? Amplify NUMB? No thanks.
How about build great a great COLLEGE stadium and arena, with a COLLEGE SPORTS atmosphere. There is a difference in feel between a college game and a pro game, one I’d guess that most college sports fans appreciate and would like to preserve. We don’t need laser lights and jock jams and whatnot.
Keep the classic Ryan Field facade. Spend quite a few million making the inside comfortable and attractive while keeping a college football feel. The stadium is already architecturally unique with those two towers. Work to make them icons, recognizable to fans around the country. There’s absolutely no need for a “spaceship”.
Build a brand new, top-quality, fieldhouse-style arena on campus, or, if you can find the land, downtown. I used to hate that January trek from Allison Hall or my apartment on Church Street up to Welsh-Ryan. I know it kept plenty of my fellow students from going to games.
Look we are an elite academic institution in an elite athletic conference and with MAC-like facilities and for the most part, MAC-like quality of athletic talent who play up (coaching, character of kids, whatever) to compete and win occasionally against elite (results on the field) programs. I consider the athletics program elite in the total sense – kids graduate with real degrees and often high in their classes, represent the university well and now are respected (if not yet feared…) on the field.
This facilities overhaul will hopefully get us on-par with the rest of the B1G schools that will help us get the occasional big recruit to give us the possibility of creating some elite (results on the field) teams in the future without forsaking the qualities that make the athletic programs elite already.
We need some kind of tradition and a much better game day experience to get the rest of (at least North) Chicago-land involved. I like the idea of a “Chicago” experience in terms of the food and perhaps the decor (maybe some Ivy somewhere…?).
The idea of having a live big cat is kind of neat, but I also think some skits or movies or whatever that shows us “eating up” the competition could be cool. I went to a CHL (Central Hockey League) game and the team was playing a team that basically had a rabbit for a mascot. Before the puck drop, they played scenes from the Bugs Bunny “Kill the wabbit” cartoon (when Elmer was a “Viking” hunting Bugs with his spear and magic helmet…). It had the place rocking and everyone pumped (the younglings still think that skit was more interesting than the game!). With our supposedly vaunted drama programs you would think they could come up with unique mini-movies before each game…
Jason, I suppose you and I are ultimately starting from two different places. That’s fine. I think my original point still stands.
Northwestern is a major university, significant both athletically and academically (discarding the term “elite”). Ultimately, that means we do everything, or as close to everything as is practically possible, and we work toward being the best at it. Not funding non-revenue sports is, to me, no different than if we were to stop funding Greek or SESP or other non-flagship academics at the university.
Does that mean we underfund football? No. Let’s go huge for football, attract the very best. But that doesn’t require sacrificing all funding and facilities upgrades for the rest. Dismissing lacrosse and tennis and fencing with “no one cares” seems contrary to the mission of the university.
how is it that fencing, lacrosse, women’s basketball, wrestling, and men’s golf are all able to recruit and do well without fancy pants facilities? all of these sports function at an elite level or, in the case of women’s hoops, get us the only McDonald’s All Americans in school history (Amy J and the Jones incoming freshman)? sure, we’d like a new house. I’d like better coaches for some sports who could get better kids. facilities can be smoke and mirrors.
@cece — because elite talent in those sports, with maybe the exception of golf, have no prospects of turning their sport into a professional career. All things being equal, if you’re offered a wrestling scholarship, you’re probably going to pick the one from the school you like the best/is best, since you as a student athlete are REALLY getting the most benefit from the academic side of the equation.
Men’s basketball and football aren’t the same way — since there’s a professional career path in the sport, and many of the athletes consider themselves elite enough (through confidence in themselves or what have you) to one day be a professional, they may look at the facilities and say “Hey, with a weight room, etc. that good, I might develop more as a player, and have a better shot at making the NFL/NBA/play overseas professionally.” In those cases, we compare unfavorably to our Big Ten competition, with better facilities.
(Note: Our women’s lacrosse team and men’s golf team are known as having pretty stellar facilities overall, especially the former — the Lakefront lacrosse field is arguably one of the best venues in college sports, period, with its view of Chicago and Lake Michigan, grandstands, etc….although it needs locker rooms for players.)
If NU decides for a teardown (or major renovation) of Welsh-Ryan, please design it so that it could be used for hockey if such a decision were made in the future. Better yet, if you are tearing it down anyway, it shouldn’t be hard to make the facility hockey-ready now. Add both a men’s team and a women’s team.
As predicted, this subject gets the comments rolling. Lovin’ it. Personally, I like the combo of the historic charm of Cameron Indoor Stadium with the modern amenities while still having character of Conseco Fieldhouse.
Curious to get a sense from this group of what the best CFB only stadium built/majorly renovated in the last 15 years is? Minnesota? Stanford? Georgia Tech?
Jason, is this the only year that counts for you? And is national champion the only definition of elite you’ll accept? Because I think you’re off base on both counts. Over the past ten years we’ve been highly competitive in many of our sports at both the Big Ten and National levels.
In Wrestling, in the country’s toughest league, we finished in the middle, and still finished 12th in the NCAAs, and have been higher in recent years. That’s elite.
In Men’s Swimming we’re down this year, but have competed at the top in recent years.
Softball the same, and your comment about Women’s tennis is ridiculous given the success individual women tennis players have had in the NCAAs.
Likewise with Golf, fencing. Hell, we didn’t win the Lacrosse championship last year, so by your definition they aren’t elite either.
@cece:
For football and men’s basketball, I really think the biggest difference is the gameday experience rather than the facilities. There is a big difference when a recruit goes to Michigan and sees 100,000+ plus fans in a sold out stadium vs. NU with a capacity of 47,000 and usually not close to sold out. It is the same with men’s basketball.
In other sports, the gameday difference isn’t that much since there are so many fewer fans attending in the first place, so the minor differences don’t play much of a factor.
@Just the Facts – Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes – tear down Welsh-Ryan (it really needs to go – I have seen minor league hockey/basketball games in better facilities and no amount of touching up will do it) and make the new digs multiuse. Even if they do not anticipate a hockey program for some time, getting the building at least prepped for it might convince someone to pony up to sponsor the sport. I personally really like the idea of it also being part of the Evanston community (we must get more than just NU students/alumni interested in NU athletics – the whole north side-shore/southern wisco needs to come on board) as a multi-use venue. We gotta get those people fans and excited so we don’t lose the kid from Barrington (already forgot his name) and the one from Bradford (forgot his name now as well).
Practice facilities (basketball, volleyball, hockey, etc.) can be built separate, but the game-day venue has got to be really special.
I would love the idea of a Lakefront football stadium and would really set NU apart from the rest of the B1G and really the nation in my opinion, but the chances of that are basically nil (about the same chance of hockey getting sponsored right now, sadly). I really really hope they study that option well and if they choose not to do it at least explain why. LTP had a really nice article on that a while back.
LTP, Oregon St has done a nice job with their new stadium renovation, and Akron looks like they’ve built a good facility too, although theirs is a little small for NU. I don’t think we should have a seating capacity of more than 36,000. I bet we could get more revenue from a consistently-full 36,000 stadium than a sporadically-filled 47,000 seat one.
As far as hoops, I say move the softball field to the lakefront, get rid of the field-turf practice field (install at Ryan Field?) and build the new arena in that space. McGaw Hall could be retro-fitted as an ice arena, similar to what Michigan did with Yost. Just a thought.
@ calmer …
“laser lights and jockjams … ” Funny stuff.
I haven’t seen Georgia Tech or Stanford, but did go to Minny last year. It’s a great place! Even the worst seats, as at Ryan Field, are good. But I was so impressed by the concourse all around the stadium at about mid-height of the stands. Has banners up for all the All Americans, All Big 10, retired numbers (Bobby Bell that day with Warmath there), and lots of souveneir and fully-stocked refreshment stands. The sound system was amazing. A pretty full house who is into “Minnesota Rouser.” Even with a bad team it was a great game day experience for the type of fans we want to attract.
I think a stadium with more available tailgating would be great even though I personally don’t do it (drive from Toledo that morning). I think they should definitely consider a lakefront site with more parking although I don’t think the program right now would generate personal seat licenses given current attendance issues. But I do know that the Minny game experience was much better than at all but the biggest Ryan Field experiences and I think that thrill is what recruits look at.
Re why the “fancy pants” sports, not my term, can recruit the elite but not football and basketball. Easy – no one in those “f p” sports dreams of making millions doing it professionally. Kids with a motor really think that they’ll turn that 2 or 3 star rating into All American or All Big 10 and that is the attitude coaches want.
Marketing is a long term project but with the Chicago population base its a winnable project. But in the meantime lets continue to try and recruit new ticket buyers to R and W-R.
wasting money on things other than football or bball is a BIG mistake
@the other jason
Jason agrees
And both Jasons should realize that spending money on non-revenue items is not “wasting” it. Don’t worry – money (a lot of it) will be spent on football and basketball. But money will also be spent on all the non-revenue sports, as well — as it should.
@ calmer than you are:
Jock Jams? lol…
I guess what I’m trying to say is that perhaps trying something other than attempting to force tradition where it doesn’t exist could be a good thing for the program. I’m not advocating dumping the traditions that we do have, but enhancing them in a catchy (or even kitschy) way may not be a terrible thing. Consider what I have to say more generally. Forget Jock Jams, but think about the whole “hands in the air” tradition that Fitz started for the fourth quarter. Remember when Tom Skilling introduced it last year, and people were buzzing a bit? That was good. Now imagine a new “celebrity” intro to that each week, a la the 7th inning at Wrigley. Now imagine that it’s shown on the biggest jumbotron in the B1G, accompained by some pyrotechnics, and it becomes something that people anticipate–that people outside the program equate with NU. Would this in and of itself drive recruiting? Probably not, but these types of extras get people talking. Now imagine that you’re sitting in a state-of-the-art facility with first-rate food and beverage options, and I think you start to at least build a fan experience that becomes attractive (even as a curiosity, at first) to the sports fan who might not otherwise think of attending a NU game. Add to all of this an actual product on the field that competes year in and year out for conference titles (which I assume will become more likely with the improved weight facilities, etc.), and, well…you begin to see my point.
I’ve been to a bunch of Georgia Tech games over the last two years. Bobby Dodd is an interesting place and has a unique, bandbox feel to it. I never went to a game there before 2009, so I can’t speak to how much it’s improved, but the new parts of the stadium are pretty nice. Some new suites and offices overlooking the field and a completely new, double-decked 15,000-seat endzone. The last $75 million project increased capacity to 55,000, which I don’t think would serve as a very good example for NU to follow.
At the same time, GT has a lot of the same challenges as NU, in that they have some real academic standards and a ton of competition from nearby pro and college sports. I don’t know what they’ve done in terms of marketing, but when the Jackets win, the place fills up, and when they don’t (like 2010) they can struggle with attendance.
@Al I love the idea of retrofitting welsh-ryan for a possible B1G entry for hockey one day. I went to the outdoor hockey game at the Big House last year and all I heard was how good Yost was. Definitely see similarities between Yost and Welsh-Ryan.
@Jason. I have to agree with you, going back to the Big House. I visited my friend there for a football game and that was as pure of a sporting experience I had. The only music was the band. No huge marketing initiatives during the game or during breaks. Just football.
I completed this survery earlier in the week. All I really request is for them to fix the bathroom and the concourse situation. It’s embarassing there are portapotties under my seats in the endzone (though it’s nice during the non-conference games because it’s pretty much a private bathroom for my uncle and I) and it’s a disaster with people waiting for the visiting teams to leave and they want to go a different part of the grandstands. After that, all the club sections stuff I could care less about, which I felt was a point of emphasis of the survey.
@CatInTheHat
I’m not saying “force tradition”. I’m saying “college football atmosphere” as opposed to NFL atmosphere or, even worse, Arena League atmosphere, which is what I think of when I hear “flashiest place in the NCAA” and “amplify NUMB”.
I haven’t been, but from what I’ve seen Minnesota did a great job building a completely new stadium with a college football feel. Like all the best places to go see a college football game, they didn’t attempt to Jerry Jones the place.
pretty sure wrestling is in anderson hall, not in w-r
@catinthehat
Put your hands up in the air sure did wonders in the 4th quarter for us with Purdue, Michigan State, and Illinois, not to mention our 2nd half + 1 minute Penn State collapse.
find a different song, i Say
@ jason
The song might be cursed. Maybe we should try “In the Navy” this year and see how it goes.
@ calmer
Valid points. At the end of the day, I would assume that whatever upgrades happen will preserve a classic college atmosphere, although I do think that there is a case to be made for a little bit of flash. Amplifying NUMB, I think, is something that should be considered regardless, because they are so small compared to other B1G bands and can be very difficult to hear throughout much of the stadium.
Finally (and please note that I am NOT advocating for this), check this out as an example of flash/gimmicry: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Central-Arkansas-takes-the-colorful-turf-trend-t?urn=ncaaf-wp497. Purple turf anyone?
Agree with lots that has been said, especially moving the ballfields to create more tailgating space. W-R should probably to a total teardown but if the shell must stand then eliminate the practice facility and use the entire footprint for the new “Writz” arena.
I haven’t read the whole thread, just got the jist of what people thought fromt he first 10 or so posts. As usual, it seems, I think I disagree.
RE Football only — everyone cares about different sports. Certainly more people care about football than any other NU sport (despite their mediocrity compared to Wrestling, Lax, Soccer, Softball, etc) and no one doubts that they will get most of the money. But consider this: ETHS has a private lockerroom for its in-season athletes (aka in spring, boys lacrosse and boys baseball each have their own locker room). The NU women’s lax team has to use a locker room at Patton (what — 400 yards from lakeside field, at least?) that is 1) public and 2) shared with at least women’s soccer. Not very awesome for them.
RE: Flashy facilities and big jumbo trons — For those of you who want this, go to an NFL game (Dallas would be your favorite). The thing that is so great about college football, and NU football especially, is that you’re there to see a football game. Not to be entertained and have loud noises blasted at you and be told when to cheer; but instead to watch the Purple kick [insert big ten school]‘s ass. I love that about our stadium and don’t want to see it change. Now I’m sure some of you will say “how can we compete, how can we get fans” etc etc. Well, Iowa sells out ~80,000 seat Kinnick without any of that crap, and Wisconsin sells out Camp Randall without it, too. And when you say “but Iowa has no pro sports” I say “ah ha, but Wisconsin sure does.”
Also, not sure if anyone’s brought this up, but we definately should NOT expand seating capacity. In fact, I’d be in favor of shrinking it. Create an intimate atmosphere with stands close to the field and you will promote more fan energy.
@ Doug: I get the reluctance to want to add to the “production” of the Ryan Field gameday experience, and I see it both ways. However, the fact is that Wisconsin has done what NU thus far has been unable to do: put a consistent winner on the field for the last 15-20 years. Ultimately, W’s put butts in seats. I would love to think that NU will reach that point someday, but the truth is that we are victims of a perfect storm: pro sports town, stringent academic standards, tons of competition for recruits at schools with better facilities, stronger traditions, etc. Something’s got to give, and I just don’t see how adding some creature comforts, better concession options, etc., would hurt the program I agree with the notion of shrinking the stadium a-la Stanford, but you don’t want to reduce capacity by much–maybe make it 40-45,000. Fine, don’t build a spaceship within the Ryan Field shell, but put backs on the seats for crying out loud (I don’t see how this would be a bad thing or detract from the experience). At least give us a real sound system so that the PA, team intro, etc. don’t sound like the adults in the Peanuts cartoons. NUMB is tiny compared to most Big Ten bands. Let’s amplify them so that we can actually hear them. We have an old jumbotron that is invisible to 30% of the stadium. Having a jumbotron is generally acceptable, even to purists, so why at least have a modern one that everybody can see? I definitely get the desire for a pure, classic college football experience. I love that experience too. But let’s face it–NU simply can’t put fans in the stands for whatever reason, and they’re not going to relax the academic standards as a quick fix to improve the product (and it’s unclear whether that would make any difference, since we would still probably lose out to the OSUs and Michigans of the world for recruits), so there has to be some other draw, and the new facility should be it.
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