Time For A Change

@LTP: It would be charitable to say that people complaining about Fitz are of extremely low intelligence….just because a few imbeciles believe that Fitz should have a national title by now (in a relative upswing in terms of the Big Ten’s competitiveness) doesn’t make them right, or lend their views credence.

However, I think the time may be right to replace Carmody. Not because he’s a bad coach (indeed, he’s probably the best coach Northwestern has EVER had, which is saying something). He’s improved the program pretty tremendously in his tenure (and yes, I realize that saying this is faint praise, but we’re about to head to ANOTHER NIT appearance, hopefully)…..but we need more. And I don’t know whether the passion is there anymore from Carmody.

Find a passionate, young, smart head coach. Require that he keep Tavaras Hardy (our team’s best recruiter) on staff. And see what happens….Thanks, Bill Carmody, but I just think it’s time to change.

It’s pretty apparent that Carmody needs to go. As LTP notes, he just doesn’t look invested in the team anymore, and I think that definitely trickles down. So, I’m with NUmanager from the previous post: cut Carmody loose now (with thanks for all he’s done) and give Hardy the interim tag.

We still have a slim shot at the NIT but it’s not going to happen if we ride out the status quo. It’s maybe not a fair tryout situation, but it’s better than Tavaras would get if they wait until the offseason – I just can’t see them handing such an unknown quantity the keys straight away. Maybe the guys respond and he gets them to the NIT, maybe even a victory. Or maybe not and we at least have some insight into how he would coach and how the guys respond to him. At the very least it would make the final part of the season interesting, rather than just playing out the string.

I acknowledge that it probably won’t help recruiting – but it’s for only a month, after which time Phillips will presumably move quickly to fill the spot on a permanent basis. Given that most of the recruits signed up for Hardy anyway, I can’t see it hurting much. I’m sure a number of other coaches are negatively recruiting against Carmody right now anyway saying that he’s probably gone soon.

Your “thanking” of Carmody would hold a lot more water if you hadn’t just posted your Dr. Phil psychoanalysis of him as “a pouting, sarcastic scowler” and “not exactly the guy who will instill optimism in mom or dad in the living room.”

Seriously, sometimes you make it sound like Carmody shot your dog, or something.

It might very well be time for us to move on from Carmody. But I think your attacks on his personality and makeup are really out of line.

While I agree with the thesis that it is time for Carmody to go, I really wouldn’t be surprised if he stayed on for another year at least. I know what a buyout is, but I also know they gave him an extension this summer after not making the tournament for 10+ years. I’m not as big of a basketball fan, but how is the logic of giving him an extension last summer any different than not firing him now? He was poised to make a run at the tournament with a “star” returning (whoops) from a season crippling injury. Would it really be that unexpected if the administration gave him another shot while he finishes out his contract?

Why oh why did Carmody get an extension in the summer? And why was there not intervention with the Coble matter? Did the members of the team not want Coble back? Otherwise, why not let him come back after Italy? couldn’t the team have used the help?
The first action Phillips took when he came in was to fire the women’s basketball coach. Carmody was not too far ahead in worth then. we could have used that firing action on the men’s side long ago.

please no Coach Robinson. seriously.

@Garguantuan

What you call personal attacks on Carmody I call accurate descriptions. Its tough to imagine how Carmody’s irritability on the sidelines can be any help to the mentality of players. Look at a guy like Brad Stevens at Butler; he’s always calm and collected and his players respond to that. I hope we can get a new coach with the same kind of positivity.

Firing Carmody now and letting Tavaras coach as interim is an interesting idea; I don’t think it will happen, but it would give the administration a chance to better assess Tavaras’s coaching ability and see if he’s a good candidate for the permanent job.

My primary criticisms of Coach Carmody throughout his tenure at NU have been: (a) his inability to ever get one of his teams to play good sound, fundamental defense; and (b) the negativism he seems to carry with him that derails his ability to inspire his players.

Defense is about proper technique, but mostly it’s about desire and a tenacious attitude. Too often, our players fail to exhibit either. I’d argue that players with the athleticism and skill level good enough to perform at a high level on offense should find it even easier to excel on defense…but only if they approach it with toughness and tenacity.

As for negativity, Coach Carmody’s frank style is often refreshing to outsiders…coach-speak is a concept totally unfamiliar to him. Over the course of time, however, it comes across as lacking confidence in his players to rise above a mediocre level. It has the opposite effect of inspiring his team, and in fact, results in too many people within the program shrugging off embarrassing losses like yesterday’s Penn State debacle.

I’ve followed NU basketball for over 40 years, so I understand what Coach Carmody has done to elevate the program beyond what it was previously throughout that period. But we’re talking about having taken a program from the Dark Ages to just plain bad….in a few years, he’s achieved mediocrity, but nothing beyond that.

Can anyone else do better? Remains to be seen…the barriers remain and are formidable. Without a serious facilities upgrade, I have my doubts. But two things I know are that no team that plays zero defense will ever be a factor in the Big Ten; and no highly successful coach I can think of has ever done it without a passionate, optimistic approach that inspires his players.

Thanks to Coach Carmody, a fine man who has run an honorable program, but it’s time to give someone else an opportunity.

How do we attract the best coach? Committ to building this:
http://portfolio.populous.com/projects/louisvillearena.html

A downtown arena (that would double as a convention center for Evanston and improve relations) would serve notice that the administration is serious and solve several problems:
1. Student attendance–the student body could realistically walk to games.
2. Commencement–a venue that could hold a university-wide events that is comfortable and dry and large enough.
3. Right of the Purple line and Metra Lines and Downtown parking garage–easy access.
4. Vastly improve ‘Town/Gown’ relations with added tax revenues (ticket sales for all events including concerts)

Real estate is reasonable and we could enter into a public-private partnership with Evanston to make this happen.

Agreed. AON Center (Hello Pat Ryan) would work just fine.

They aren’t firing carmody before the end of the year, and I would be surprised if they moved on it until after he fails again next year.

Also no one is building this godforsaken program a new arena. And if you did it, it should be on campus.

I would have to agree with Paul here. This season is not over. The Cats have a realistic opportunity to go 8-10 in Big Ten. If they win one game in the tourney and then get a home game (hopefully) in the NIT and win it–you would be hard-pressed to say that the program has not moved forward–especially considering Shurna’s lingering injury. If the ‘Cats end up 22-13 for the season and win their first post-season game since ’94…Carmody deserves another 2 year extension. If the ‘Cats do not make the NIT and lose out the rest of the season–a change course should be made. Also, If Coble is indeed still eligible, why not have Carmody and the Administration cry ‘mea culpa’ and offer him a opportunity to earn his masters and bring the ‘Cats to the Tourney in ’12. Just saying.

@Db
A new arena would not just be for the program–but really for the entire University. Also, a near north Downtown arena is as close to an ‘on campus’ arena as we are going to get–much closer than the Central Street athletic facilities–building on the lakefill or other actual ‘on-campus’ locations would be too expensive/diminish future necessary academic facilities opportunies and finally would not have the public tranportation/parking needed within blocks to make it feasible.

When they built Welsh-Ryan in the ’50′s–we were not exactly a basketball powerhouse and it was considered a very important municipal project for Evanston and the North Shore. Such a downtown facility would serve a similiar purpost 60 years later with 60 year later amenities and design.

Comments?

First off I dont take pleasure in talking about removing someone from his job, especially when that person is a good man and runs a clean program. That said, if I was as ineffective at my job as Coach C has been, there would be a lot more than speculation about replacing me.

I agree with LTP that the head coach of Northwestern is a more attractive position while it still has a few D1 caliber players left. That said I’m not sure what the promise of another 5 or 6 win Big 10 season means in the broader scheme of things.

I disagree with the notion that Shurna, Cobb, Crawford, or anyone else would consider leaving their education and position on the Northwestern team because Carmody was leaving. Especially considering the types of names the good doctor would be entertaining as a replacement. The only players indebted to him are the half a roster of players who he gifted free education to despite not being D1 basketball players. It’s not like they can lose playing time – it’s already zero. Nor would they have other options. It actually would be a coup for an incoming coach if people left but that’s not happening – you come to Northwestern, you don’t come to play for a coach whose only consistent track record at Northwestern is mediocrity.

There are 5 major points to me that suggest change is warranted:

1 – Cutting Coble. D1 is full of knuckleheads. I can’t imagine whatever nonsense Coble brought was worse than what every other coach of real teams deals with. And even if it was…deal with it. You don’t cut 2nd team all big ten players. It’s not fair to your team, your school, your fans…even yourself. This team with Coble would have caused ridiculous match-up problems for everyone. They would have been BIG too. Not sure it would have mattered that they couldn’t guard anyone.

2 – This year’s preseason schedule – it proved he doesn’t get what it takes. The guys that run the numbers nationally – not us speculating – the professionals, said this team could have gone 11-7 in conference and struggled to make the tourney. That may sound far-fetched, but these guys are right year after year. And besides, isn’t our “system” confusing? You can beat good teams in the pre-season, teach your team what playing tough competition is like, etc. This schedule was laughable – not just because it sold this team short, but it’s a slap in the face to the fans to entertain no good teams.

3 – Lack of recruiting or developing big guys – the roster speaks for itself. And on top of that he signs 2 point guards and a guy that makes Coble look jacked. I hope they are all awesome, but haven’t you set yourself (or the next coach I suppose) up to fail?

4 – Tactically he has devolved – As mentioned he used to win games. Drew up plays that led directly to baskets…and there is no question he has forgotten more about hoops than I’ll ever know, but this year has raised real questions:

a – Home vs MSU – Shurna in the most important rebounding spot on one leg with game on line

b – Away vs MSU – running an inbound play for Luka when 2 foul shots wins the game

c – Home vs Illinois – they won, and I’m fine with taking fouls before they shoot 3s….but with their backs to the basket? in the back court? if northwestern misses one more free throw the cats lose that game. they could have played that much tighter. he didnt trust his team to make the smart play that would have iced the game (fouling after a few more secs). was odd.

d – Complaining about getting outrebounded, when your defense for most of the year plays your smallest guy under the glass, and has your best rebounders flying out at wing shooters 25 feet from the basket. The league adjusted, we haven’t. The 1-3-1 is a gimmick, and he knows it. Yet he had nothing else in the holster. The wingspan on this team with coble would have been silly. Would have made up for a lot of deficiencies.

5 – There are better options, and we should have a higher bar than squeaking out NIT bids every couple years.

I realize we agreed to save #5 for a later date, but LTP touched on it, and it’s not Tavaras (though keeping him on the staff would be prudent). Chris Collins makes all the sense in the world. He is a local kid, with a Dad who everyone knows and respects. And oh yeah, he used to drop 50 on the public league with regularity. That resonates. Running 30 off the shot clock doesn’t.

@Paul
Ok, fine, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I continue to hold that whether Carmody is whiny is subjective, and whether this is detrimental to the team is speculative. I think Carmody’s personality is a matter of personal taste. With all of Carmody’s shortcomings — the recruiting, the defense, the weak bench, the lackluster W-L record, what have you — to rag on his personality is asinine. In my opinion, of course.

Coaching major men’s sports at Northwestern is, over the long haul, a very tough life challenge. A wealthy, intelligent alumni base, and one that now has expectations that are changing, puts a ton of pressure on our coaches. Bill Carmody is a great guy, and while I don’t know him personally, I have chatted with him at the farmer’s market in Wilmette a number of times – he rides his bike there. He is always engaging, and I think he loves Northwestern and the community. But 11 years of this stuff has finally worn him down. He is a good man, a good basketball mind, a thoughtful guy – and come one, isn’t it great when the back door works against Ohio State, even when you know in your heart that we are probably going to lose the game? “Northwestern’s Princeton Offense,” whenever I hear that I get a little proud that at NU we do things a bit differently, we run different game plans, we are good shooters, and on an on. But you can only have a 5-10 point guard playing base line defense for so long. Coach Carmody is, in a word, resource constrained. Our guys are just not as good as the athletes the other schools get. Even Schurna is not THAT great an athlete. Great basketball instintcs, great shooter, gets good position, moves his feet, can dunk when he’s open, but he’s not a 40 minute both ends of the floor athlete. With that said, we’ve been blessed to have him, and he fits perfectly into Carmody’s offense. But the coach is tired – he may not even know it – but you can see it on his face, the first real sign was his #1 star player quitting the team. It doesn’t matter who was at fault. That kind of drama just doesn’t happen when everyone is on the same page. It was a huge sign, and I think most of us knew right then that there was no chance that NU would go to March Madness this year. Losing Coble was a sympton of the deeper problem, that our coach has been worn down by the losing, the hapless losing. There’s nothing he can do about it, his teams are fun to watch, but they are not, man for man, over the course of the long season, as good as the other Big 10 teams.

This, but they way, is the biggest risk that Fitzgerald faces. How will he handle the down years, because they are going to come. And how will we handle it? Will we turn on him like some here have turned on Carmody?

With heightened expectaions come heightened emotions, and the more the wins come the more the critics and know-it-alls come out of the wordwork and scream for bigger and better results.

Is this the kind of Northwestern you want? You want Iowa? Do you want to rage every weekend like they do on Illinois’ blogs? Do you want kids who break into dorm rooms, and get arrested like in Madison? Do you want coaching merry-go-rounds like at Indiana, and now maybe Michigan?

One part of me actually would like to see Coach Carmody stay, for as long as he wants. There’s something to be said about continuity. He is, really, one agile, athletic 7 footer from March Madness. That’s how close he is – one big man.

So you want to switch because of what? Lack of results? I say he does the best he can given the players he has. You want to switch because we’re not going to March Madness? We’ve never been, why is it so important this year? Our #1 guy quit, and the next #1 guy has been hurt all year. So fire Carmody? If Tavaras Hardy is such a great recruiter why is it that he hasn’t gone out and found what Carmody needs to compete in the Big 10? We need what Dickie V calls an “aircraft carrier” in the middle – why can’t Hardy go find one or two of those kinds of recruits? One 15 point/10 rebound big man is all that separates this team from March Madness, and if we were going to the tournament I can guarantee you all that this discussion and LTP’s call for a change never happens.

@Gargantuan

Of course what I said was speculative. Any analysis of BC is speculative, including yours, so that doesn’t detract from my argument. And if analyzing someone’s coaching style (I think that’s what you meant by “personality”) is asinine, every AD in the country is asinine.

@Paul
There is speculative analysis, and then there is reasoned analysis. A reasoned analysis can be made on X’s and O’s, and we can have a debate over Carmody’s offensive/defensive strategies or his substitution patterns or any number of other things that are decided on the court. What’s speculative is basing an argument for firing a coach on his personality and its potential impact on his players/recruits. I can see what’s happening on the court, and I can make a reasonable analysis on what I think should have been done. We all engage in this kind of second guessing. But neither you nor I have any insight on how Carmody comes across to his players or recruits. Sure, we can infer. I just think that to base a “fire the coach” thesis even partly on his demeanor is silly.

Of note – the basketball team was in nyc for 3 days and carmody had no alumni events. that is not on him to schedule, but if you are a long-timer, aren’t you supposed to alumni outreach when it’s easy?

He wears his frustration on his sleeve. 18 year olds pick up on that. and when games don’t start right, they can be victims of their mentor’s emotions (penn st, illinois, wisc). It’s not healthy, and he would probably be the first to admit that.

Why in the world would you suggest someone that transferred away from Northwestern? Could there be a worse choice? If the list includes all of the D1 coaches in the country, he would be in a battle with Isiah Thomas for literally the last place on the list.

I will contribute to by Luka a ticket back to the Baltic
——–
For starters, I didn’t know that Belgrade, Serbia was in the Baltic… I think someone needs a refresher on European geography.

I, for one, welcome Luka to both stay on the team (and grow and improve!) and, more importantly, stay at Northwestern to finish his degree. The education part has to count for something, right?

@CatInTheHat: merci….and I also LOVE football!

Okay. Someone else has brought up Rex Walters (as I did earlier). Let me get this straight, if a student transfers from Northwestern to Harvard because at that time in his life, Harvard is a better fit or maybe has a better academic niche program at the time …and then that student decides to get his or her phD at Northwestern…does the selection committee knock this student for transferring? I think not. Rex Walters understands why a student would consider transferring (based on our history, this may be a GOOD thing), understands the history of losing and different than anyone since our Coach back in 1930-31 (or ’40s with Otto Graham)…understands WINNING and does not tolerate losing. He is young, he has the credentials and I believe he has the attitude this program needs. Carmody has served his role and done a good job. I just do not think he is the guy for NU to be a consistent NCAA tourney contender. Rex Walters went to the Final Four as a player (check), played many years in the NBA (check), started his college coaching career at Valpo under Homer Drew (of sweet sixteen lore) and has held TWO head coaching positions (check) since then. His program was a rebuilding effort when he got there and they are now 6-2 in a conference with the likes of St. Marys and Gonzaga. His stock will only rise and this may be our best (and only) opportunity to catch him before he is too big a fish and target for more attractive programs.

@GTom
I think most agree, its time for Carmody to go. I also think more than a few, if honest, would say 2011 is a crossroads of sorts for Pat Fitzgerald… For what its worth, I was no big fan of Walker, after for whatever host of reasons, the program went south amidst high expecations in 01… After that, I think Randy, sold mediocrity and “Stability” as success in the progam, ala, being “Bowl eligible” and having .500 records in The Ten… Call it positioning, managing expectations, whatever… That said, I think the SUCCESS of Randy Walker and Gary Barnett, is what makes Coach Fitzgerald’s situation different, and for that matter, demanding MORE accountability than Carmody… NU Hoops, has for the vast majority of its existence, looked at mediocrity as “The Next Step”… There has been no track record of success, ala Big Ten Championships, national rankings, etc. to build upon… Agree to disagree with me if you might, and I wish you no ill will either, but, Fitz took a big step backwards this year, and we were fortunate to be bowl eligible, given one of the lightest non-conference slates in the country… While I certainly wish Pat well, and hope things turn around this year, scrutiny deserves to be in place for the 2011 season… At 35 years old, with no track record as a Head Coach, and an 18-22 conference conference record after 5 years – in no way, as a long time NU fan, could I state to other passionate NU fans on this blog, I feel he is a lock for the future success of the program… Many, feel he is… I hope they are right…

You make some other points, ala 8-4 Va Tech and Notre Dame teams being ranked higher than NU… Also, we are underdogs in all our bowl games… Might it have something to do, with the fact, since the era of the intro of the 85 scholarship rule, and our “Modern History” since 95, that in our good years, we have a signature win or two in The Big Ten, yet, lose games both in and out of conference we SHOULD win, then, stating the obvious, find ways to lose in Bowl games as well… Teams are ranked ahead of us, and we are usually U-Dogs in big games, because more often than not, the other team is superior, or more complete in nature… It needs to end… I’d like to see the next step, being that we are not only ranked, or favorites in some of those games, but when we are, NU wins! Anything less, is dealing in moral victories, which is not where NU can be going forward, if indeed mediocrity is not the objective… I hope Pat Fitzgerald is the guy to get us there… 2011 will say volumes to me as a fan about that… A campaign of the nature of the past season, including the woeful defense, would indeed be enough to get the hot seat ready in my mind… Plenty of coaching talent out there… Gotta win at this level…

Nope, can’t agree with the crowd here. If we get to the NIT we’ll have done what no NU coach has ever done with three straight sort-of post-season visits.

While our talent level is way above what we used to have back in the day, we still don’t physically match up very well against many teams. We win with heart and energy. Every team has down days…the teams with more physical talent can overcome them and hang close. We can’t. Unlike football, the hoops season goes on forever. No coach in the universe can have their players on their ‘A’ game 30 times a year.

Let the season play out..I suspect we have some good wins left in us.

Three thoughts: (1) unless Northwestern changes its admission standards it’s doubtful it will ever be an “Ohio State” in football whereas many teams have succeeded in basketball with difficult admission standards (Duke, Stanford, etc.); (2) while John Wooden didn’t win a national title at UCLA until he’d been there 15 years he immediately turned around a losing program to a program that consistently won at about a .650 to .700 clip before winning the first title in ’64; and, (3) basketball is easier to “turn around” given a key player or two. Anyone know the percentage of assistant coaches who move up to their first head coaching job and succeed v. the percentage of successful head coaches who move to a bigger program and are successful because they have experience as head coaches? I’m betting on the latter.

@PastorCat

There is no excuse for the erratic effort on display in our conference games this year (the past two come to mind… not even cracking 20 first half points in must-win games… and the first Illinois game especially).

Measure our first 7 guys against the first 7 from rest of the conference and I think it’s safe to say that we should at least be around .500 in the Big Ten. Those were the nearly unanimous expectations heading into this season.

Thats the biggest difference between football and basketball at NU. We’ve seen the magic happen with football several times over the last 15 years. We’ve seen, once in a while, 2-star players rise up and deliver an effort that far exceeds what anyone could have expected of them. Iowa football flirts with a BCS birth every year… and we have OWNED them the last 6 years.

In 11 years I’ve seen it just once from a basketball team under Bill Carmody. Where you go into someone’s house and come away with a win that blows your mind. It happened two years ago when we beat Mich St at Mich St the year they went to Final Four. But then, we don’t have Bill Carmody to thank for that memory, do we? Thanks Kevin Coble.

If you’re not going to deliver an NCAA tournament appearance once in 11 years, how about at least pulling a performance from your players that meets their talent level? Isn’t that the job?

Sent a heartfelt email to Carmody in the offseason. No response whatsoever. Not even a “thanks for your support of Wildcat basketball” — wasn’t asking for a 5 page response, but completely ignoring alumni who want to help the program is not good karma. As many have said, he had some great moments, but he’s just not the guy to get us where we need to be.

Hey LTP, the LAX regular season starts THIS SATURDAY at ND. NU ranked No. 2, ND ranked No. 10.

70alum:

Growing up a Hoosier fan I had long been in the corner of Alford and was all over Rick Taylor to consider him back when they picked up O’Neill.

However since then (1) he blew up Iowa, and (2) by all accounts he has evolved into a real d-bag.